Wednesday, June 27, 2012

do not expect any further replies

Hide All / Expand All

Señor El Once : do not expect any further replies

2012-06-27

Señor Agent Rogue gets his butt kick on the the nuclear topic in another thread, so tries to do his triage over here.

Aren't I the lucky one, because across two postings (June 25, 2012 at 5:12 pm and June 25, 2012 at 5:44 pm), Agent Rogue prematurely promises me:

That’s it Once, I’ve had it with your shit. Don’t address me again. … I am serious Señor, do not expect any further replies from me.

WooHoo!!! Time to go to town without backtalk on his last three four six posting here!

June 26, 2012 at 6:42 pm

I would say based on a dubious assumption, the question is asked; ‘Why would anyone want to hide the fact that nuclear devices were used to demolish the World Trade Center?’

Nice malframing in your question, but I'll bite anyway.

First of all, nuclear devices [using a broad definition that includes nuclear means of powering DEW] shoots to high heaven the whole cave-dwelling hijackers, airplanes, jet fuel, and gravity legend that they spent the last decade building and defending. Nuclear devices in the towers could not have been planted by hijackers in airplanes, particularly when the extensive monitoring of their whereabouts (e.g., Mossad cells living next door, flight schools, Jack Abramoff's gambling yacht) did not show them spending sufficient time in the right dubious places to acquire such devices and plant & arm them appropriately. The circle of conspirators grows larger and at the same time more select with a laser-like focus on (foreign and) domestic govt agencies with access to nuclear devices. [To be fair, most of this can be said about controlled demolition.]

Second, evidence of "nuclear anything" has about the same PR stigma as a "toxic waste dump": nobody wants it in their backyard, their playground, their place of employment, or their commerce centers. Want to see a portion of a city shrivel up & die as inhabitents and workers make their exits to greener, non-toxic pastures? Then let it slip out that "nuclear something" was involved. Even though the spectrum of "nuclear somethings" is very wide with respect to radiation signatures, their duration, and their impacts on human health, misconceptions will still run wild in the public sphere. The Field of Dreams message to Silverstein paraphrased: "If you re-build it, ain't nobody gonna come."

Third, assuming spin to direct attention to foreign entities as the culprits, the US govt would find it difficult to curb the public mentality that those who nuked us shouldn't be nuked back. And up in smoke goes the very natural resources that PNAC and the neo-cons in office wanted to control.

Fourth, assuming the deflection onto foreign entities is easily seen through and domestic conspirators in the US govt and its agencies are pegged, this revelation could end the status quo for everyone elected or employed by the US govt. In fact, it could lead to the dissolution of the USA of 50 states and the creation of smaller regional countries out of those states, and with the might of the vote, any Federal & on that level becomes a quaint concept for the history. Major change that would have deep reaching effects, and obviously one those "in power" would try to avoid.

I'll stop here at those four.

More to the point I would ask; Why are there those who want to diminish that which is the most coherent and fact based evidence, that of explosive demolition?

Ooooh! Very clever framing, Agent Rogue. However, it really isn't about diminishing anything about explosive demolition, because just about all of us are on board for the vast destruction of the WTC to have had many different mechanisms, back-up mechanisms, and redundancies to achieve its goals.

A better framing might be: Why is the nuclear evidence being given short-shrift? Why isn't it being addressed? Why are you "settling" for a lesser solution, when the features hinting towards nuclear sources still have to be addressed?

Postulating the existence of mini-nukes is unnecessary; these weapons are well known to exist. Speculating to there use on 9/11 to bring down the towers is another matter entirely. The first question to be asked is, WHY?

Truth simply is. Gotta follow it where it goes.

Why with all of the high powered munitions capable of and known to be sufficient – why turn to an exotic weapon such as nuclear or DEW?

Why not?

Do you use a hammer to insert screws? Not if you have a screwdriver. Not if you have a screwdriver bit attached to a power drill. Use the proper tool for the job, and make the job easy. Why make 50 trips with a bicycle if you have a pickup truck in your garage that can do it one trip?

The exotic weapons exist in the arsenals of the PTB. Generals and Majors with itchy trigger-fingers would be literally dying to use them.

The second question is more critical however; How is it that the signature characteristics of the destruction so positively matches that of these non-nuclear devices?

Nobody argues against non-nuclear devices being used in tandem and with some redundancy with nuclear devices. Remember, it isn't just the towers that were decimated: WTC-3 was seemingly crushed, WTC-6 had a massive crater, WTC-4 had its main edifice leveled, WTC-5 had "bore-holes".

Before going on with the next posting from Agent Rogue, allow me to summarize my impression of the previous posting. Agent Rogue is trying desperately hard to keep errant thought, brain-storming thought, and imagination-within-the-realm-of-possibility away from exotic weapons. This trend continues. The following quotes by Agent Rogue are from June 26, 2012 at 7:21 pm

And to this I would add that Señor el Once is as free as the wind to expound upon his nuke/nukeDew theories to his hearts content.
Let him and others who will make their case to the candid world.

Don't mind at all if I do! Thank you very much for that invitation, Señor Rogue.

As to the issue of cancer illnesses and deaths among first responders; let us remember we are not just speaking to asbestos, but all manner of toxins, including mercury, much of it reduced to micro-fragments. There are more to the dust studies that Jones’ search for thermite. These show this material to be a soup of ultra toxicity to the extreme. Just to take asbestos as an example; it was blown to tinier particulates than any normal asbestos hazard.
Yeah, yeah, true enough. However, the cancers caused by, say, asbestos do not have such sudden impact on victims. It takes significantly more time for onset of such cancers to be noticable.

Not so, for the ailments of 9/11 1st responders. They were suffering within weeks just like Hiroshima survivors.

Tell me: where is it documented that those toxins -- asbestos being the one you like to peg the most -- result in the loss of teeth? Because we don't have to google very far to discover that loss of teeth and sudden onset of various cancers happen pretty rapidly from too much exposure to radiation.

On to the next posting from Agent Rogue from June 26, 2012 at 8:48 pm

At this point I am coming to sense that, DEW, Nukes, No-planes, Digital Fakery…the whole new ‘Alternative 9/11 “Truth Movement” is the full press court by the Sunstein Counter-Insurgency Group.

Nah, I would say that the Sunstein Counter-Insurgency Group has a full-court press to prop up super-duper nano-thermite in sol-gel form (yada yada yada) by the likes of its Q-Group A-List Players, Agent Rogue.

Seeing how you bring up digital fakery -- that coincidentally you are an expert in --, let's just say that your attitude in this genre has been less than genuine. You're as bad as Mr. Shack (and his representative, Mr. OneBornFree).

Mr. Shack and Company say: "I have possibly some evidence of imagery manipulation, therefore everthing was fake! Can't trust a damn thing in any of the imagery."

You say: "Mr. Shack is a low skilled idiot in the realm of imagery manipulation. I have proven that some things presented by Mr. Shack as examples of imagery manipulation are not; they are examples of Mr. Shack's poor understanding of the tools of that trade. Therefore, all imagery was valid and no digital fakery took place in any shape or form." [Obviously, these really aren't your exact words, but "no digital fakery" is certainly the hard-line agenda-toting message that you want to get across with no wiggle room for imagery manipulation at all. Most closed-minded of you.]

I'm open-minded enough to recognize nuggets of truth in both. The most obvious example is that I no longer promote "no planes." I promote "no commercial planes," because video evidence seemingly of different flight paths was proven (using 3D modeling) to actually represent a real and singular flight path (for 2nd plane) and because velocity-squared in the energy equation has a decimating effect on common materials. However, the velocity in question exceeded that of commercial planes; when combined with the precision targeting and even the "pod on the plane," the planes were not commercial.

A more subtle example relating to my still being open-minded towards imagery manipulation are the whacked out color schemes presented by various networks and the unclarity in many versions of the towers decimation. Could not digital filters have been applied that would handle "nuke flashes"? Just some wild-ass speculation.

Better examples of my mining of nuggets of truth from September Clues -- the go-to location of digital fakery -- are (a) the speed and complicity of the media in getting the "official story" out and (b) much of the research into simVictims.

As for DEW and Nukes, I could go either way and both ways with my nuclear powered DEW or nuclear X-Ray devices. The point is that the decimation of the towers is not something you'd do with 5000 trips by bicycle (conventional chemical explosives) but something you'd do with a few trips with a Mac Truck Semi (nuclear hijinx). If both are sitting in your garage, WTF?

It should be red flags high, when it is shown that nano-thermates are indeed explosives, and the family of sol-gels they are related to are certainly in the ‘High-Explosive’ category, but yet those who campaign strongly for nukes deny the open record on this by maintaining that “superthermite is not an explosive”. With a whole leg of their argument stuck in an obvious lie, I would be highly dubious of the other leg.
What you write isn't "red flags high," it is "red herring" which I will address in more detail when responding to your posting from June 27, 2012 at 11:59 am

Anyone who has watched a fire in a fireplace should understand the physics of what a chaotic wandering flare will act like; how a piece of paper can suddenly flame up from heat in the ashes. We are not dealing with a packed fuse situation in the rubble pile.

Correct. Agent Rogue goes on to quote from Ryan et al:

The spikes in VOC detection could also be explained as a result of the rapid combustion of typical materials found within a building structure. If energetic nanocomposite materials, buried within the pile at GZ, were somehow ignited on specific dates (Table 1), violent, shortlived, and possibly explosive fires would result. Such fires would have quickly consumed all combustible materials nearby. The combustible materials available, after a month or two of smoldering fires in the pile, might have been more likely to be those that were less likely to have burned completely on earlier dates, like plastics. Later combustion of such plastic materials, in violent but short-lived fires, could explain the spikes in VOCs seen on those dates.

VOC stands for "volatile organic chemicals."

Table 1 had six dates of maximum detection for five species (of VOC) in air at GZ.

Here we've got Truth and Shadows.

The Truth may indeed be how the spikes in VOC detection could be explained. No problem. Let's assume that energetic nanocomposite materials were buried in the pile in pockets and ignited on specific dates giving us those spikes. Indeed, the volume of energetic material required for such spikes would not be equivalent to what could be packed into a 664k mile long imaginary garden hose.

The Shadow is that fires smoldered under the rubble with little to no oxygen for that period of time. In fact, that very same paper ("Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: evidence for energetic materials") begins with the passage:

For months after the destruction at the World Trade Center (WTC) on 11th September, 2001, the fires at Ground Zero (GZ) could not be put out, despite the following facts.

- Several inches of dust covered the entire area after the destruction of the WTC
buildings.
- Millions of gallons of water were sprayed onto the debris pile.
- Several rainfall events occurred at GZ, some heavy; and
- A chemical fire suppressant called Pyrocool was pumped into the piles (Lipton and Revkin 2001).
Sure, I'm fine with Ryan, Gourley, and Jones making the case that energetic material was in the rubble and caused these spikes. I'm fine with the extension of this that these materials were involved with the destruction. (Redundancy and back-up to achieve a thorough destruction was 9/11's hallmark.)

The issue is that nano-thermite is extrapolated erroneous by 9/11 yeomen (and agents) to account for the duration of the smoldering fires that could not easily be put out, with no correction by the authors about this fallacy.

Woe, wait a minute! Ryan writes:

The characteristics of these un-extinguishable fires have not been adequately explained as the results of a normal structure fire, even one accelerated by jet fuel. Conversely, such fires are better explained given the presence of chemical energetic materials, which provide their own fuel and oxidant and are not deterred by water, dust, or chemical suppressants.

Maybe I'm wrong. It wasn't just science-challenged 9/11 yeomen trying to peg the duration of the smoldering fires on chemical energetic materials. Ryan is doing that himself. He purposely left this impression for the 9/11 yeomen. Ryan covers his ass by then focusing on the spikes:

The occurrence of such extreme, sharp spikes in VOCs in air at GZ indicate something other than the behavior of a typical structure fire. Oxygen influx as a result of shifting of materials within the pile might have created an increase in combustion of material in localized areas. But these spikes in VOCs, at levels thousands of times higher than seen in other structure fires, suggest extremely violent but short-lived fire events.

After each of the six major spikes, the source chemical energetic material at that location was consumed. What caused the fire to smolder without oxygen despite fire protection efforts?

The source (or fuel) of the smoldering fires is not nano-thermite, because to achieve this with its very fast burn rate (2908 fps) would require overwhelming ginormous volumes of unspent material in the pile: [for 1 hot-spot burning just 4 weeks equivalent to what could be packed into an imaginary garden hose 664k miles long.]

The source (or fuel) of the smoldering fires is not plastic materials and such, because (a) these require oxygen to burn, (b) these would have been put out by the fire suppression efforts, and (c) these are what are suggested get consumed by the energetic spikes (see speculation by Ryan in first quote) and release their signature toxins in the air that the EPA measured and is a major basis for this paper.

The source (or fuel) of the smoldering fires is... WHAT?!!

Due to the narrow focus of their paper that does indeed PROVE in my mind that chemical energetic materials were present in the rubble pile (resulting in VOC spikes when ignited), they were able to sidestep speculating into the source for the smoldering fires.


Not to pass up low-hanging fruit, here's another quote from the paper with such fruit high-lighted:

Probably the most striking spike in toxic air emissions, found in EPA monitoring data, occurred on 9th February, 2002. Note (Table 1) that this was nearly 5 months after 9/11, and after nearly all the debris had been cleared from GZ.

... The same EPA who told 1st responders and NYC residents about how safe things were. How come its data was accepted unchallenged? Just like the Tritium Report was accepted unchallenged by Dr. Jones in his no-nukes paper.

Agent Rogue writes:

It is when an explosive material is ‘salted’ throughout a salad of other material and items that the efficiency is lessened. The point I make in the mix scenario is not “burn-rate” which is only correct in a continuous ‘burn scenario’ and that is the whole point – wandering smolder throughout — not a continuous burn.

You better put some science and experimentation behind that supposition. Burn-rate is burn-rate. Characteristics when it is ignited even in "salted" quantities is for the "salt particle" to reach high temperatures and be consumed very fast. "Salt spikes," albeit small, but still noticable: not observed. The evidence is that the smoldering of the fires was rather constant and continuous EXCEPT for those big spikes noted in the Ryan paper.

Certainly, some of the smoldering was wandering, but some of it wasn't. And for the part that we think was wandering, the "salt particle" might have been immune to fire suppression efforts and the lack of oxygen, but the surrounding material that the "salt particle" was supposed to ignite to keep the smolder going until the next "salt particle" was torched off was not immune to such. Turning to the smolder that didn't wander, that "salty" dog don't hunt.

Another source for the smolder needs to be sought.

And gee. It just might have a correlation to the juked evidence of nuclear hijinx...

June 27, 2012 at 12:57 pm

There are multiple points, including visual evidence, physical forensic evidence, wound evidence, sonic evidence, witness testimonies of their own sight hearing and physical experiences of multiple explosions. Some of these describe the sounds of perimeter wrap-around cutter charges, characterized as “bam bam bam bam,” punctuated by deeper rumbling booms. There is visual photographic evidence of ‘squibs’ – the whole litany every 9/11 researcher should recall from from 9/11 – 101. All of this must be weighed against any alternative theory challenging it.

Sure, they threw all that and the kitchen sink at it and much much more.

Now address the duration of the under-rubble smolder, the nuclear signature, the torched vehicles in the distant parking lot [but not the closer offices of the World Finance Centers, etc.], and the 1st responder ailments... Oh wait! You dismiss then in a delphi concensus slight-of-hand.

And let's not get too hung up on WTC-1 and WTC-2, when WTC-3, WTC-4, WTC-5, and WTC-6 are oh oh oh so interesting.

Keep cranking away at the steering wheel, Agent Rogue! I love your nuggets of truth, but will continue to mine them from other sources as well in order to get the true big picture that you are trying to steer us away from.

WooHoo!!! And I've got the added benefit of Agent Rogue being tired of addressing my shit, so maybe I'll get the last word. Yee Haw!!!



Hide All / Expand All


Señor El Once : mutually exclusive pitter-patter mumbo-jumbo nonsense

2012-06-27



Señor El Once : what constitutes a good solid bowel movement

2012-06-28



Señor El Once : The China Syndrome Aftermath

2012-06-28




Señor El Once : inverse mathematical correlation between rapid energy release and a burn duration of many weeks

2012-06-28



Señor El Once : non-radioactive nuclear reactions

2012-06-28



Señor El Once : I no longer read [Señor El Once's] book length postings but for a glance

2012-06-28



No comments: