Hide All / Expand All
Señor El Once : Distrust but Verify
2012-02-10 at 12:31 pm
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
I agree with your statements:
Indeed, the Razor can be more or less abused. However there is the point of complexity, and that as it applies to the proposition that all of the visual imagery from 9/11 is digitally manufactured. The idea that this is even remotely possible is staggering. We are not simply dealing with TV footage, we are dealing with footage from people from many angles and POVs that never appeared on TV, but were subsequently put up on You Tube. In other words we are dealing with unmanageable complexity.
Whereas Mr. Shack provides us many nuggets of truth in his efforts, you have stumbled upon some dross of disinformation in his postings, because it is he himself who wants us -- nudges us, urges us -- to extrapolate and hold up all 9/11 footage and imagery as products of digital manipulation and thus unreal. In particular, his zany responses seem to target Dr. Wood, because he seems to
not want
to review Dr. Wood's textbook
"out of intellectual honesty"; he implies that because her textbook stands upon the shoulders of tainted images, it follows the computer principle of
"garbage in / garbage out."
I take the paraphrased
"Ronald Ray-Gun" (pun intended) approach:
"Distrust but verify."
Mr. HybridRogue1 wrote:
And I would add that it is ludicrous to propose that such digital fakery would be done which proves the towers exploded – rather than ‘collapsing’ into their footsteps and the mantra went. If such footage was computer generated it would have made more sense to show a ‘gravity’ driven collapse – which these images clearly do not.
Agreed. This ends up being another area where potentially the dross of disinformation in Mr. Shack's work is visible.
Mr. HybridRogue1 wrote:
There is the point of whether Shack actually proves anything with his side by side expositions. You feel that he does. I don’t see that. He claims never to have been debunked. Perhaps those who might have the expertise to do so see it as so ludicrous that it is a waste of time to take it serious enough to do so {?}
No. Allow me to clarify. I feel Mr. Shack has made a convincing case that some level of digital manipulation occurred. It is highly conceivable FOR THE INSTANCES HE DOCUMENTED. I do NOT believe Mr. Shack has by any means taken all imagery off of the table as being fake products; he's simply raised the "distrust but verify" flag.
As was stated in the "When did they know?" thread [that Mr. McKee had to post for me, because the blog was inexplicably not letting me post anything], if all of the footage are products of digital faking, they should have at least gotten the collapse footage closer to Hollywood standards for being real and in agreement with Newtonian physics.
Mr. HybridRogue1 wrote:
As far as “energy requirements” Dr. Wood has a problem with such as well. Where does the energy come from that she claims drives this unknown weapon? See the article by Dr. Jenkins on the energy requirements for such a weapon, and the problems of hiding the other atmospheric effects that would need be present in their use.
Thank you for that excellent segue, Mr. HybridRogue1, and such an accurate & keen eye you have for Dr. Wood's problem. It should be pointed out that Dr. Wood's textbook only hints at what the energy sources could be. One option was free energy from Hurricane Erin. Another option could be cold fusion nuclear "generators" (my term) which then supposedly yields Hutchison side-effects. I have high hopes that Mr. Shack's crack team will view some of those side-effect images (e.g., fireman stepping right over a localized fire on one end of some aluminum cladding that miraculously wasn't burning any of the paper that littered the street) and discover the artifacts of digial manipulation.
My speculation was milli-nuclear generators powered the DEW devices due to the hot-spots that satillites captured and burned for many weeks.
Always bringing out the Dr. Jenkins, eh, Mr. HybridRogue1. (Do you have a link?) How much of Dr. Jenkin's old article even applies to Dr. Wood's new textbook? When Dr. Jenkins writes a book review -- chapter by chapter -- of Dr. Wood's textbook, then maybe he'll be applicable. I won't dwell on the problems that Dr. Jenkins himself has, like the irony of his research and employers being in the very area he tries to debunk Dr. Wood on.
What's it going to take to get you on the same page to be reading Dr. Wood's actual words from her textbook and then determining their validity and applicability?
Hide All / Expand All
Señor El Once : flirt with the dustification of steel
2012-02-10
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
Ho-hum.
Evidently you missed a key passage right after the title of Dr. Jenkins' paper: "(Updated 4/12/07)". The "07" does not stop at "007" but goes to a full "2007". When did Dr. Wood publish her book? Around Valentine's Day 2011 is when I got my copy. See any problems with using something from "2007" to challenge something published in late "2010"?
Dustification of steel? You and I have already been through this.
I'm only married to the dustification of content (e.g., concrete, drywall, humans). I just flirt with the dustification of steel. If you want to take her out (double-meanings intended), this duped useful idiot won't contest too strongly as I go back to straddling the fence on the subject until definitive, convincing evidence either way is laid out.
I absolutely love Mr. Shack's zany technique of pitting two (or more) disinformation sources against one another and having their inconsistencies knock each other out.
So here you have Dr. Jenkin's calculating the amount of energy required to get steel to vaporize (which in my laziness I won't double-check and will assume is correct for the purposes of this discussion):
... the energy required to raise the steel from room temperature to the melting point, change phase from solid to liquid, raise the temperature from the melting point to the boiling point, and change phase from liquid to gas,
respectively. If you consider that this amount of energy, J 14 5.7 ×10 , which is only 50% of the energy required to vaporize all the steel from both towers was pumped into the towers during the collapse time, approximately 10 seconds, then the power necessary to vaporize the steel would be 5.7×1013 Watts. This is over 5 times the total power output of the entire earth including all carbon combustion, nuclear power, wind power, hydroelectric power, etc.
The first glaring misdirection in Dr. Jenkin's skew is highlighted, but I will spell it out: his calculations are for "all the steel." As you so eloquently pointed out somewhere in our discussions, seemingly a huge portion of the towers steel was accounted for at ground zero. If you want to push the envelope by saying "most of the steel was accounted for", it leaves wiggle room for some of the steel or even a small fraction of the steel being turned to vapor, which then reduces significantly Dr. Jenkins' pie-in-the-sky energy estimates.
A second Dr. Jenkins' purposeful misframing is in limiting the discussion to solid-to-liquid-to-gas. You see, plasma is a fourth state of material, and when it reaches that state, all bets are off with regards to energy input & output and self-sustaining side-effects and all sorts of kooky things.
Enter Simon Shack who proves an instance (or two) of images of the destruction pile being tainted. Does the tainting add steel to the images?
Shame on me for following any of your wild-goose chases, Mr. HybridRogue1, because Dr. Jenkins' old (2007) paper does not consider the new Tesla-ian probability that vast quantities of free energy could be tapped into. Of course, as conspiracies go, the energy companies of the world would not be happy with this prospect, because it turns off the tap to their cash machines run on oil, natural gas, nuclear, etc. Yet another reason they were motivated into starting a distracting war over dwindling oil reserves.
Unfortunately for you, Mr. HybridRogue1, you will be unable to address any of the bad-shit crazy stuff above, because...
neither Dr. Jenkins
nor Dr. Jones
nor Mr. Chandler
nor Mr. Gage
nor Mr. Cole
nor Mr. Wright (of 9/11 Blogger)
nor Mr. Shack
nor Mr. HybridRogue1
goes there in any recent publication to address a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in Dr. Wood's textbook: not the ugly, not the bad, and certainly no acknowledgement of the good. ... This is a sign. Pay attention.
+++++
Oh, and here is helpful formatting tip. You can insert some basic HTML into your posting to add clarity, like:
<blockquote>{some really long passage you're copying-and-pasting from elsewhere}</blockquote>
which then gets posted as:
{some really long passage you're copying-and-pasting from elsewhere}
Also, formatting like <a href="http://someUrl.org">a link to a something</a> can help you insert a hyperlink, like one to Dr. Jenkins.
Señor El Once : the sand you kick up
2012-02-10
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
Fuey on the sand you kick up in readers' eyes.
Dr. Wood's textbook has X number of chapters and was published in 2010.
From your grand & high seat of total ignorance as to what is contained in Dr. Wood's book -- because you haven't read it, don't have it, won't get it --, you foist upon us an unlinked PDF by Dr. Jenkins from 2007 that doesn't address completely even 1 of Dr. Wood's X number of chapters and that Dr. Jenkins had no way of knowing (in 2007) would be there (in 2010).
If Dr. Jenkins is so right on the money, where is his follow-up? Where is any good doctors follow-up to the good, the bad, and the ugly in Dr. Wood's textbook? N-o-w-h-e-r-e.
You know the height at which the bar for discussion is set at, Mr. HybridRogue1.
Get on the same page literally, Mr. HybridRogue1, regardless of whether or not you agree with what is printed on the page, otherwise you & your postings take on the aura of fanciful fantasies spun by... "Disney, Universal Studios, Stan Winston Studios, and many others too numerous to mention" (e.g., your past employers.)
Regarding using the "<blockquote>" HTML tag, it would help the readability of your postings enormously in terms of who actually wrote what. Putting a tiny tilde (~) with attribution at the end of a mondo quote doesn't do it for me.
Señor El Once : I flag your consistency and obstinance in refusing to get yourself informed
2012-02-10
Dear Mr. HybridRogue1,
I put my money where my mouth is, both in acquiring a copy of Dr. Wood's textbook for myself, but also in giving it to leaders in the 9/11 Truth Movement. I've done that because I know the noise and chatter is so loud regarding Dr. Wood, most would not purchase the book on their own to see for themselves.
The cost of the gift came out of my own pocket. I do not know nor do I have any affiliation with Dr. Wood. I secured their permission before purchasing anything and having the distribution website send it out.
Your pen-name is a good reflection of your antiques here. You are a hybrid. Sometimes you make really cool and agreeable statements that would make you a rogue from the OCT position. Sometimes your rock-solid refusal to objectively review that which you obviously don't know (September Clues, Dr. Wood's book) makes you a rogue from the 9/11 Truth position.
Arguing from a position of admitted ignorance is not strength.
I haven't extended you an offer of Dr. Wood's textbook, because your past employment indicates that you could well afford the book and -- despite your stellar writing -- I don't consider you a leader of the 9/11 Truth Movement.
You commend my persistence in pushing Dr. Wood's book.
I flag your consistency and obstinance in refusing to get yourself informed while you parade around flaunting all that you don't know. You give little indication that anything presented could change your mind. FLAG!!!
Your rogue and hybrid nature gives you a foot in both the OCT and 9/11 truth camps.
"Ye cannot serve two masters."
I am finding the flaws in Dr. Wood's textbook. Alas, they are neither frequent nor monumental so as to destroy her work. Her textbook will stand the test of time, even for what few elements that someone might convince me were in grevious error.
You won't be able to do it with dated Jenkins malframing of back-of-envelope energy calculations, that's for sure. Physics is indeed physics, unchanged from 2007 to 2010. But as another strawman of yours that I'll torch, the supposed energy calculations being massive for the "dustification of steel" girlfriend [a blow-up doll for you, because I date "dustification of content"] doesn't preclude that the energy source and mechanisms weren't out-of-this-world unique and powerful & manly enough for the task.
Meanwhile, the height of the bar was set with respect to what should be reviewed. You try to duck under... again and again. And that's when I use Dr. Wood's textbook to clobber you and your arguments on the noggin. [Mr. Chandler commends it for its big, heavy size and extravagent use of color... but not much else... And also from a position of not having read it despite the UPS guy handing it to him.] Not my desire to use the book in this manner, but certainly fun. I would prefer some assistance in mining, refining, and re-purposing the nuggets of truth from these various sources that are often framed as disinformation.
You wrote to Mr. Winterrowd a quote from Dr. Jenkins:
Most of the debris from all the collapsed buildings in the WTC complex, excluding Building 7, collapsed within the sublevels...
Not so fast. Dr. Wood's points out how only four of the seven subway lines were obstructed and shows pictures of personnel exploring the shops under the WTC plaza.
Dr. Jenkins never calculated the energy required to achieve his compression ratio. The reason he didn't, is because Dr. Jenkins is OCT and believes gravity alone had the energy to do this. Or maybe I error on this point and don't know what Dr. Jenkins proposes accounted for the destruction.
Your re-hashing of super-duper nano-thermite lacks the math (and experimentation) from his PhD champions (or you) to prove that it could pulverize content ~AND~ result in hotspots that burn for days. But park us at super-duper nano-thermite you must as a Rogue Hybrid with a foot in two camps to keep the public from realizing how deep the deception and betrayal, and that the massive energy requirements necessitates looking elsewhere for the energy source.
Man up, Mr. HybridRogue1, and get yourself a book to read. Otherwise, the master you serve becomes apparent, and it ain't necessarily Truth with a capital "T".
No comments:
Post a Comment